Dewi Morris - Sky Sports Expert

Rugby is disgusted

Posted: 01st November 2007 12:39

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Mike catt Lawrence Dallaglio

Mike Catt: Outspoken on Brian Ashton

This is a great game that we love and talking to numerous players in and out of the game, there is a lot of disgust out there.

Dewi Morris.
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The glory of reaching a second consecutive World Cup final has had some of the gloss taken off it - at least according to some observers - by Mike Catt and Lawrence Dallaglio's public criticism of England coach Brian Ashton.

Since returning home from the final in Paris, excerpts from soon-to-be released autobiographies by Catt and Dallaglio, published in the Mail on Sunday and Sunday Times this week, questioned Ashton's ability as head coach of England and his managerial skills.

While both said they admired Ashton's coaching ability, Dallaglio likened the organisation of the England squad to that of a pub team and Catt said they were rudderless and even thought of packing his bags and going home.

English rugby has reacted with disappointment to the revelations, saying the trust between coach and players has been broken and that certain things inside rugby should be left inside rugby, not aired in the public domain.

Dewi Morris took up the debate on the Rugby Club this week, and here is what he had to say...

"You have got freedom of speech, that is why we wear poppies, so for a start they have a right to do it.

"But I agree with Ieuan (Evans) and Deano (Richards) that this is rugby union and there is honour and trust in it. For one guy, Brian Ashton, they have kicked him right in the teeth.

"He is the one that gave them the chance to come back for a second type of glory and winning another World Cup. There are egos and personalities and it is about book sales.

"But this is why we love rugby union. It is why we still call the referee sir. This is why we clap people off and have a beer with the guys after. You shouldn't do this.

"I know these guys have retired - Lawrence hasn't yet, but he probably has now - but it shouldn't go on. This is a great game that we love and talking to numerous players in and out of the game, there is a lot of disgust out there, and I think that is why we have seen, not retractions of these statements, but apologies.

"That doesn't mean anything to me and it doesn't mean anything to Brian, I wouldn't have thought. It has been said, they have a right to say it, but for me there is no point in saying that in rugby union.

"Brian has only been given a short period of time to manage England. I would like to see him in the job with four years to prepare for the World Cup but of course Jake White has come on the scene now.

"Who knows what will happen after these words have been put into the public domain? Again, they shouldn't have been said."

Comments

Lynne B says...

I agree with Gary J & John B. LD & MC have wise heads on their shoulders & are brilliant players of Englands highest calibre. Ashton is a good coach BUT is he a good manager? The two are completely different & if his strength is in the area of coaching then please let him continue to do an excellent job there & lets bring in a manager to work with him. We have three good blokes here with loads of experience behind them, lets use the rugby teamwork/code & encourage them to work together to bring the best out of ENGLAND. Let's stop all this bitching & name calling, let's stop criticising & look at the positives. If the old men of rugby (who I believe weren't part of the England camp) kept their opinions to themselves then England rugby wouldn't be in this turmoil.

Posted 09:07 21st November 2007

Andrew Lampard says...

To me, this is just yet another example of in house frolics being blown way out of proportion. In this country, whatever the sport, we are past masters at shooting ourselves in the foot. Rather than taking the many positives from what was, by all accounts, an astounding World Cup for England, we have now proceded to take a backwards step. Of course, the royal 'we' doesn't quite fit here. When you look at players of the calibre of Dallaglio and Catt, then you have to take their opinions into consideration. I agree with one of the writers earlier, have either of them actually cast aspertions as to Ashton's ability to 'coach' England? No. They have doubted his ability to be the man at the helm. Yes, Sir Clive Woodward was successful - but our memories are short. We won the World Cup in 2003 on momentum, luck and some ability. We were the supreme leader in world rugby the year before, we peaked to soon. But that has been forgotten. Ashton needs to remain at the helm. He has done a remarkable job thus far, but now needs to surround himself with former players that know what is needed to be successful on the field. The RFU should hang their heads in shame if they do not succeed in bringing the likes of Martin Johnson, Neil Back, Matt Dawson et al into the coaching set up. It would be a travesty not to use the experience we have out there. With regards to the books, let them publish their books and say what they like. Ashton's reputation will not be irreversibly tarnished, as the man led England to a World Cup final against all the odds. Stick by him Rob Andrew, but bring the men in that you KNOW can back him up and make England into the dominant world force in rugby again.

Posted 16:22 15th November 2007

Janusz Kordonski says...

I agree with Dewi Morris on the negative comments relating to Brian Ashton. Let's face it, he was thrown into the job in the deep-end too close to the World Cup. One also needs to remember that had England rugby done their homework after the previous world Cup there probably would not have been room for Lawrence & Mike Catt. Having said that I was not against their selection - they were best of what was available and also gave a more mature mix which was needed. Having been beaten soundly by the Boks in the knockout stages was a good turning point for England and they responded very positively. On the negativity of Brian Ashton - can someone highlight Sir Clive Woodward's early record with England? If memory serves me right it was not too fantastic but I could well be wrong - any how English rugby stuck with him and to good dividend. If one looks at both rugby & cricket at their respective World Cups - four of five of the top rated teams lose their coach after the World Cup because only one of the five teams will win - so four coaches are out - give or take. Does not make too much sense.

Posted 17:35 14th November 2007

John Evans says...

Reading the comments here there are valid arguements both ways and you probably have said all i can. I do however get annoyed about saying Catt and Dallaglio are over the hill. Both were picked by Ashton so what can you say. But just as a bonus look at the way they have played for their clubs in the last few years (apart from injury gaps). Oh yeah and one was involved in a little cup competion and won it. Sure i doubt they have lots of playing time left but as with the World Cup its shown the experience helps. Having read Dallaglios book hes a bit of a rogue at times but his sense of honour and his dedication to his club stand miles ahead of a couple of comments echoing alot of other peoples opinion. Maybe they would have not said it if they would still be playing but maybe thats why they said it as they thought someone should and they had nothing to lose. It certainly did not influence me buying the book. Yes you've guessed it im a Wasps supporter.

Posted 14:50 14th November 2007

Iain Buchanan says...

There are two aspects to this debate: Firstly, whether what Catt and Dayglo was right, and secondly whether they were right to say it. I'll take each in turn. General consensus has it that Brian Ashton is a world class coach, one of the best. I don't think that either player has cast aspersions to the contrary. However the role he is currently in has more to it than that and it is in these other areas where maybe Brian is not best placed. In 2003, Clive Woodward was at the helm - now Clive is not the best coach in the world, however as a strategist, manager and leader he was exceptional. He also had the good sense to surround himself with a quality coaching team who were all clear on the way he wanted the games to be played. The results speak for themselves - although it should be pointed out that he had a good few years at the helm to shape the side - Brian had less than a year! Recognising Brian's stengths and how far he took England within that year, and also fully agreeing that he should play a pivotal role in the England set up until the next world cup. The obvious solution is to keep Brian as Head Coach, but create a 'Management' role and appoint an expert alongside. With regards to the question as to whether players should have broken ranks, well there are arguements to support both sides. The fact that they have, has opened up the subject to an open debate and not something discussed within the murky depths of the RFU corridoors. And of course the players have the right to air their views - and I know they still stand by their comments. However the unwritten rule in rugby is that we do not wash our dirty linnen in public - it underpins the sense of 'honour' and 'respect' that runs through the game. What goes on the pitch, stays on the pitch - and the same applies on the training ground. The honourable stance for both players would have been to speak to Brian before publishing to discuss.

Posted 13:53 14th November 2007

Philip Roberts says...

i think that the critisism aimed at Brian Ashton was totally uncalled for, the players are professionals not ameteurs and should have conducted themselves accordinly. In my opinion Dallagio and Catt were past their best before the World Cup and Toby Flood and James Forrester or James Haskell should have been selected.

Posted 10:43 14th November 2007

Sam Broadhurst says...

Well I feel that Brian Ashton had quite a few selection question marks: Andy Farrell, which was a real mistake and he kept with them. He could have opted for a better players in this position. Brian Ashton was too one diametional but credit he did take the flak on the chin. He should go as he failed to bring the World Cup home.

Posted 20:04 13th November 2007

Fergus Johnson says...

I think that rugby is about honour and sportsmanship.... not some jumped up ex-players stirring up controversy with blunt and unforgiving comments about the man who got England to second spot on the biggest stage of all... Maybe there should have been some critisisms (if necessary), but certainly not from the players in the public domain.

Posted 15:49 12th November 2007

Tadeusz Piotrowski says...

What seems to have been missed by some of the comments is that there is a code of conduct in rugby. The game is also a reflection on how we behave in life. Take and give the knocks without complaint and shake hands afterwards. Are these standards we are prepared to shed in the name of 'progress'and financial gain? LD &MC would be wise to reflect that , at the end of the day, it is 15 men on the pitch that decide the course of the game.

Posted 18:01 8th November 2007

David Wilson says...

I agree that it is better to have a book with honest opinion than a book which says nothing. Examples of the latter are the recent books written by Frank Lampard and Steven Gerard. It is maybe not to Catt and Dallaglio's credit that they have broken ranks to criticise Brian Ashton and the suspicion that this was to make themselves more money does leave an unpleasant taste but it still provides more interest than a ghost written piece of shit.

Posted 13:37 7th November 2007

Richard O'neill says...

I personally agree with Dewi Morris, the comments made by LD and Mike Catt aren't just an insult to a man who I consider to be a very competent coach, but an insult to the sport. LD and Catt are still living off their success of 4 years ago when we won, and seem to think that winning the world cup is less of an achievment than a standard proceedure just because they won it. Getting to the World cup final is a massive achievement especially with the short time Brian had to prepare and i think these complainers should acknowledge what he's done for English rugby this world cup. And I'd just like to add that LD and Catt both played in the very dissapointing effort of 1999 and Mike Catt didn't even start in WC final 03 so don't be so arogant

Posted 17:30 6th November 2007

Gras Albert says...

While I find it sad and disappointing that Catt & Dallaglio felt it necessary to publicly criticise the man, I find it much more objectionable that Ashton was being paid ¿270k a year to go into a World Cup without a clue who his best team was, with zero preparation for the games against pool opponents and with his tactics and strategies (and those of his assistants) discredited and abandoned by the players. Barnes & Morris blind support for the man only exposes how out of touch they are with the professional era.

Posted 18:46 5th November 2007

Gary Hammond says...

Excellent debate. My conclusion: LD and Catty are past it and should have made their comments anonomously, because it's good we know whats happening in the back room. Transparency in all aspects of public life, hoorah!

Posted 18:37 5th November 2007

Darren Bagnall says...

Who says rugby is disgusted? Why should Dallaglio & Catt not speak up? Should it be the exclusive domain of out of date protagonisits like Morris, Barnes et al to offer criticism and/or support to coahes and management.? These guys have earned their stripes in the modern game and until recently remained at it's cutting edge. Moreover, they are eminently qualified to articulate the mood and sentiment in the England Camp and with good reason. Time to get some fresh blood offering decent opinion on the Rugby Club. Rugby is modernising....so too should it's commentators!

Posted 15:12 5th November 2007

Gary J says...

I can't help but think a lot of people are wide of the mark here. Rather than being led down the route of questionning their motives, ie. selling books, why not actually think about what they had to say? They are not the first people to call Ashton a good coach but question his managerial ability. Maybe we should listen to what they have to say, and hopefully the RFU will too, before they make a bad manager of Ashton and ruin another good coach, like Andy Robinson. They have been there and done it, Catt and Dallaglio, so pay attention. And as for selling a few books. Well I would rather read one with some opinions in it. After all, if I am going to spend ¿15-20 on one this Christmas, I don't want it full of the usual platitudes and dull anecdotes. I want insight and men brave enough to voice their opinion when they have one.

Posted 15:10 5th November 2007

Jon B says...

Dallaglio & Catt have a huge amount of experience and service to this country. If they feel their views will help make what they see as the right choice of coach then they are only doing what they feel to be right. I (and others no doubt) have no faith in the RFU management to make the right choice in coaches (i.e. all the decisions and buck passing in 2003-7). This "one party state" approach to rugby mentioned by commentators below and 'toe the line" (and no doubt obey Francis Baron) stuff is one that people who like England to be successful are tiring of. Who else are going to make the RFU listen (and perhaps make them consider resignations in future rather than blaming the coaches and sacking four of them) than people speaking out and public pressure.

Posted 14:32 5th November 2007

Gary Phillips says...

How can people be questioning Brian Ashton's competence, he just guided England to the World Cup for goodness sake and then only lost by a narrow margin. The only people whose competence should be questioned is that of messrs Dalaglio and Catt - two over the hill ex- England players who have no scruples - just as long as they sell as many books as possible, they should be ashamed of themselves. If they had any problems with Brian Ashton's coaching they should have been man enough to stand up and say it at the time. Instead of going down in history as two Goliaths of English rugby they will both now be fondly remembered as Judas.

Posted 13:20 5th November 2007

Nicki Smith says...

What an interesting debate! Would everyone be so disgusted at them if England had gone home in the pool stages? I don't think so! Personally, as much as I admired the grit and determination of the squad to reach the final I actually think that it will be detrimental to English Rugby. If we had gone out in the pool stages serious questions would have been asked about the structure of international rugby in this country, player selection etc... That may well have brought about a much needed overhaul and a more prosperous future. By reaching the final it is merely plastering over the cracks and living in denial. Imagine what the result would have been if we got it right in the first place! Catt and LD had nothing to lose with their own international careers but perhaps a lot to gain for English Rugby in the future, they have stood up for their beliefs in a sport that, as so many people have said on this page, keeps quiet and gets on with it. I love rugby for its etiquette but I also like to watch successful teams and not keel over with raised blood pressure every time I watch England play.

Posted 12:57 5th November 2007

Matt Wilson says...

Paul, I think your out to wind a few people up! I agree that the manager's performance should be reviewed like the other players, but not by the players. The media give Ashton plenty of stick so he is not imune. Players must show loyalty or where does the game of rugby stand? Even in soccer players rarely criticise the manager and when they do, they're gone. Your comments regarding poppies are out of order.

Posted 08:00 5th November 2007

Paul Neville says...

Ever since the game went professional players have had too much to say about coaching, refs and even each other. I played in the Bath area throughout the 80's and everybody respected everybody, oppostion or teammate. Nobody is bigger than the game and the fact that Catt, who had a mediocre world cup, and Dallaglio, who spent most of the time on the bench and had very little impact when he did come on the field, should cry about stuff just shows that it is time for them to retire, gracefully.

Posted 12:51 4th November 2007

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